Interview with A9 whale Wesley: How to cultivate top-level trading knowledge that transcends timeframes and remains resilient?

He bought 500 Bitcoins with his New Year's money at the age of 15, starting from scratch in his youth; he is a crypto whale, managing a fund of hundreds of millions of dollars, and won 4.4 million tokens through the Aster airdrop in 2025; he is a poker master, almost winning the runner-up title in the World Series of Poker, and integrating GTO game theory into his trading; he is also a seasoned trader who has experienced multiple liquidations and black swan events, yet can quickly recover his losses—he is Wesley, a top player who has achieved a leading position in the crypto market, poker tables, and the gaming world.

In this episode of OKX's "Dialogue with Traders," @mia_okx has an in-depth conversation with Wesley, dissecting his path to becoming the head of a multi-million dollar fund.

👇 Below is the full transcript of the conversation. Both the video and text have been compiled for you. Enjoy watching!

I. Early Childhood Inspiration: From Yo-Yo Champion to Early Bitcoin Player – The Secret to Success Hidden in Interests

My first Bitcoin experience at age 15: My crypto investment journey started with a red envelope (cash gift)

Mia: I heard you got involved with encryption very early on. Is that related to your childhood experiences?

Wesley: Back then, I was obsessed with yo-yoing. There weren't many people in China researching the techniques, so I learned yo-yo skills abroad and brought them back to China. In the end, I won first place in Chongqing and second place in Guangdong Province. I even became the yo-yo coach for the actors in the TV series "Blazing Teens." I practiced for several hours every day after school, and my middle finger even developed bone spurs. Looking back now, I realize that the perseverance I had instilled in me since elementary school.

Mia: How did you first come into contact with Bitcoin?

Wesley: My family is relatively well-off, and my parents are very open to managing my finances. Before junior high school, I received 10,000 to 30,000 yuan in red envelopes every year, and my dad never interfered with how I used them, letting me manage my own money. Back then, to earn pocket money, I would use Bitcoin to buy Amazon gift cards on Paxful and then resell them at a higher price on Taobao for arbitrage, which gradually led me to Bitcoin. Later, on BTCChina (founded by Li Qiyuan, the brother of Litecoin founder Li Qiwei), I bought a couple hundred Bitcoins for less than 100 yuan, which marked my official entry into the crypto world.

Mia: Have you encountered any pitfalls in early-stage investing?

Wesley: Yes. When Bitcoin rose to three or four thousand RMB, I sold it to invest in stocks, but then the 2015 stock market crash hit, especially with LeEco, which plummeted to its daily limit, wiping out all the money I'd made from Bitcoin. Since then, I've never bought A-shares again, focusing solely on the crypto market. Looking back now, those early experiences were crucial, helping me understand the risk boundaries of different markets.

II. Trading and Texas Hold'em: Strategies Share the Same Origin, Earning "Long-Term EV" Amidst Information Asymmetry

Entering the world of poker during a bear market: After experiencing a loss of 20 million, I found poker to be a "stress reliever and strategy training ground."

Mia: Why did you switch to the poker circle in 2022?

Wesley: During that surge, when Bitcoin reached a high of around $69,000, I was still adding to my long positions, thinking it would reach $100,000. However, Bitcoin quickly plummeted to around $50,000 in just two or three days, a very rapid drop. I had to cut my losses and exit, losing approximately $20 million. Looking back, the main reason was my greed and impulsiveness during the bull market. I had already made a significant profit and exited, but I was caught up in the FOMO (fear of missing out) sentiment and re-entered the market, leading to such a huge loss. At the time, I wanted to find something both relaxing and strategic. Texas Hold'em fit the bill perfectly. Even if I lost tens of thousands every day, it wouldn't amount to $20 million a year, making it more manageable than trading losses and allowing me to temporarily forget the pressure of the bear market. This "clear risk boundary" helped me gradually emerge from the anxiety of the bear market, and I even started to develop trading strategies through Texas Hold'em.

Mia: Can poker strategies be applied to trading?

Wesley: Absolutely. Both poker and trading are games of information asymmetry, unlike chess or Go where information is transparent. The core is GTO (Game Theory of Optimal Solution), which doesn't rely on a single decision to win, but rather on allocating actions according to probability to pursue a long-term positive EV (expected value). For example, in poker, there's a 10% probability of raising and a 20% probability of folding. Similarly, in trading, you don't stubbornly stick to one direction, but rather allocate your resources according to probability to ensure long-term profitability.

Mia: How did you go from a poker novice to almost winning the runner-up title at the World Series of Poker (WSP)? What efforts did you make along the way?

Wesley: At first, I just went on TV shows for fun. Because I have a rather flamboyant personality and like to show off my skills at the poker table, the production teams thought it would be interesting, so they often invited me. But when I really wanted to improve, I hired one of the best poker players in China as my coach, and then I kept learning, because learning poker is a process...

It's a very tedious process, just like solving math problems; you have to memorize and recite a lot of things.

III. Black Swan Event Response: Quickly Recovering Losses After a $5 Million Margin Call Strategies

Mia: What was your personal experience with the black swan event on October 11th? Could you describe the process of your account being liquidated in detail?

Wesley: At the time, I thought the US government was about to announce the results of the ETF listings for Litecoin, Solana, and Dogecoin, and I judged they would definitely pass, so I kept going long. As a result, Dogecoin dropped 70% that day, and Litecoin fell from 130 to a low of 51. I was liquidated at that price, losing over 5 million USD across all my accounts, not even counting the losses from my spot trading. Later I found out that a certain exchange system crashed, market makers stopped placing orders, and there was an instant lack of liquidity, causing positions that wouldn't normally be liquidated to be liquidated.

Mia: How did you quickly adjust your mindset and recover after losing so much money?

Wesley: Later, a certain exchange paid out the money, but didn't publicly say what the problem was. I think dwelling on past losses is pointless and will only affect future judgments; one has to look forward. I dug out the book "Cycles," and one sentence in it really stuck with me: people and things all have cycles. We can't stay at our peak forever, so how you stabilize your mindset after falling from the peak and then strive for another new high is very important.

For this market, the primary and most direct cause of this crash was the X-ray outage, along with other catalysts such as the US stock market crash and Trump's very aggressive statements on the trade war.

From the perspective of the market's long-short game, there was too much accumulated long position, including those like us who held long positions in ecosystem coins. In an instant, all our leverage was wiped out. This crash required significant momentum, and we were the momentum of that crash. Now that momentum is gone, the market will end its downward trend and enter a period of consolidation. Therefore, after the crash, I traded according to the consolidation strategy. I went long near the bottom and then went short when the price rebounded to near the previous resistance level. I made several trades, and the results were quite good.

Mia: Do you review your trades after incurring losses? How do you adjust your trading strategies?

Wesley: I will definitely review the lessons learned. For example, after the 20 million loss, the review revealed that it was due to my greed, being influenced by FOMO (Fear of Missing Out), and path dependency. After the black swan event, I realized the importance of exchange risks and liquidity in extreme market conditions. Regarding strategy adjustments, I now primarily trade spot, using very little leverage. Previously, I would use 10x leverage, but now I only use 0.5x or 1x at most to avoid the risk of liquidation. Furthermore, I will adapt to market conditions. For instance, if I judged it to be a period of consolidation after the black swan event, I will use a consolidation strategy instead of stubbornly sticking to the trend.

IV. Trading Mindset: Trend is King, Money Management is Paramount, Reject Path Dependence

Mia: You specialize in trend trading. What is the core logic behind this trading model? How do you identify trends and seize opportunities in actual operation?

Wesley: I mainly judge trends based on three dimensions: macroeconomic fundamentals, candlestick structure, and mindset. First is the macroeconomic cycle, such as whether we are currently in an interest rate hike cycle or a downgrade cycle. Second is the candlestick chart, because the larger the timeframe you're trading, the simpler the candlestick chart becomes, and the higher your win rate will be. The third point is a good mindset. Because I've experienced both profits and losses, I can hold onto large unrealized gains and losses. I don't constantly try to trade in waves; for example, some people want to short when prices rise and go long when prices fall. But I'm quite good at holding on. These three points are my principles for trading.

Mia: You said "money management is the top priority," so how exactly do you do money management well? What are the differences in position allocation between mainstream cryptocurrencies and Meme coins?

Wesley: My core principle in money management is "mostly spot trading, with a small portion using leverage." Even if the leverage goes up, it won't cause me much damage. I used to use ten times leverage, but now I'm at most using a fraction of a second; I won't be as aggressive as before.

When choosing targets, large funds typically select the top ten or fifteen coins for trend trading, with those listed in ETFs being the best, offering higher certainty. For meme coins, the most important factors are the theme and narrative, followed by using Bubblemaps to assess the dispersion of tokens and identifying which leading stocks are being traded. However, I only trade meme coins with small positions. For example, I previously bought $150,000 worth of a certain company's coin, which could have yielded a $5 million return at its peak, but I didn't hold onto it and took profits when I saw them.

Mia: You've experienced several bull and bear market cycles. How do you avoid "path dependence"? For example, why can't you simply copy a strategy that worked in the previous cycle?

Wesley: Path dependence is terrifying in the long run. For example, if you made money through ICOs in 2017, you would have lost it all if you had continued with ICOs in 2018. The rolling strategy worked particularly well in the last bull market; for example, rolling from Bitcoin breaking $20,000 could have rolled all the way to $60,000. But it won't work this time because the market is very viscous, with many pullbacks and even potential reversals. Using rolling strategies now will easily lead to liquidation. The market is constantly changing, and the iteration is getting faster and faster. If you don't learn, you'll fall behind. Now I listen more to retail investors, such as joining communities and reading KOL opinions on Twitter, combining them with my own experience to make judgments, and I don't cling to old strategies. For example, many people were still using the "diamond hand" strategy this time, and ended up on a rollercoaster ride because they didn't see that the market structure is different now.

Mia: If you're studying computer science, have you ever considered doing quantitative trading yourself? Because wouldn't quantitative trading be more stable and have lower drawdowns?

Wesley: I don't think this has a direct connection to studying computer science. I've been in the crypto world for over a decade, and many quantitative traders have lost everything. This time (the October 11th black swan event), many market makers went bankrupt because of exchange outages. You might consistently earn tens of percent annually, but one outage or black swan event can wipe you out completely. I think quantitative trading can generate profits gradually, but it can't withstand a single black swan event. Howard Marks said that risk and return are proportional in investing; things with high returns should have low risk, and high-risk things are bad because they're easy to lose everything. Moreover, more professional institutions are now involved in quantitative trading. If I were to do quantitative trading, I'd rather entrust my money to professional institutions; they'd do it better than me. Doing it myself isn't my area of expertise. I've always had a slight bias against quantitative trading because I've seen too many quantitative funds lose everything, which has led to my strong prejudice against it.

V. Meme Coin Trading: Practical Cases and Target Selection Criteria

Mia: After you returned to crypto trading during this bull market, you had some impressive performances in Meme coin trading. When did you start getting involved with and trading Meme coin?

Wesley: This round started with dog wif hat (WIF). Because I'm in the US, I'm quite familiar with the Westerners who initially played Solana, so I bought and tried all sorts of meme coins. Including Pepe, and Neiro, the new dog adopted by the owner of the dog from dogecoin; I also bought those meme-related tokens early on.

Mia: In Meme coin trading, are there any specific operational experiences that left a deep impression on you?

Wesley: Yes, for example, "4". I bought 1% when its market value was $15 million, but I didn't hold on to it and missed out on about $4 million. At the time, I bought it using OKX's DEX function. Now the holding is worth about $2 million, and at its peak it was worth $5 million.

There's also the Azuki NFT, which I traded publicly. During the last bear market, I publicly sold a batch, making about $5 million from that transaction, which was visible on the blockchain. At the time, I was the 13th largest holder of Azuki NFTs globally. Because Azuki has a holding ranking system, and my address was famous because of my profile picture—which was worth almost $1 million at the time—I kept it as a collector's item. I sold some other rare, rock-bottom-priced NFTs, including some small beans (Azuki-related derivative NFTs). I still have a few very rare Azuki profile pictures, probably worth close to $1 million, making it a pretty good trade—buying at the bottom and successfully exiting at the top during the last bear market.

Mia: How did you learn the trading logic of Meme coin, and how did you select Meme coin targets?

Wesley: Basically, it's about getting to know people and listening to their opinions without prejudice. First, you need to connect with the community and integrate into the retail investor group. I join many groups and have my own community, where I listen to people's views on different Meme coins. I also read the posts from my favorite KOLs on Twitter, who share updates on Meme coins. Meme coins are essentially a matter of "consensus"—how much they're worth is, in essence, how much people believe they're worth. So, I first listen to the "narrative" people have about a Meme coin, and then combine that with my own trading experience to assess whether that narrative resonates with me—this is a rather subjective judgment. If the narrative appeals to me, I'll consider buying it.

Mia: You always manage to seize new Meme coin opportunities in time. What's the key to maintaining your keen sense of opportunity?

Wesley: On one hand, there are the resources around me, such as some community-oriented projects recommended by friends. For example, Aster, a junior of mine who was an important staff member in Aster, asked me to support it, so I deposited less than $30 million. They were offering a 20% annualized return at the time, and I didn't care how much airdrop I would get. Unexpectedly, the project took off, and I ended up getting free airdrops and making $5 million. It was lucky, and probably an unexpected gain from helping others. On the other hand, I'm not averse to new things. Whether it's Meme coins or NFTs, as long as it's a new project with community buzz, I will actively learn about it and not reject it from the start. Combined with the information gathering I mentioned earlier, I can seize opportunities in time.

VI. Advice for beginners: Bitcoin is the preferred choice for long-term investment; don't be obsessed with getting rich quick.

Mia: If a beginner only has 5,000 USDT or even less and wants to do asset allocation, what specific advice would you give?

Wesley: If you're doing long-term asset allocation, I would only recommend buying Bitcoin. I think we'll definitely see Bitcoin reach $1 million in our lifetime. No matter when you buy, holding it long-term is reliable; don't worry about short-term fluctuations, it's the safest approach. Avoid those unknown altcoins; the risk is too high.

Mia: If a beginner wants to get rich quickly, like you did, starting from scratch in your youth, how would you advise them?

Wesley: First of all, I must say that I didn't get rich quick. I caught the early wave of the crypto market's boom and accumulated wealth over time to get where I am today. The crypto boom is almost over; it's not like before where you could make money just by buying any altcoin. To make money, you need to ask yourself, "What's your advantage?" What makes you think you can earn more than others? Before you figure that out, don't rush in blindly. Learn first, wait for the right opportunity, and be careful to survive. Many beginners get cocky after making a little money, add leverage, and trade recklessly, ultimately losing everything. It's better to learn how to avoid losses first.

Mia: Besides trading skills, what else do you think beginners should pay attention to? For example, mindset and lifestyle.

Wesley: The most important thing is not to be too obsessed with getting rich quick; trading is just a part of life. Right now, health and safety are the most important things to me. I have security 24 hours a day, and I spend hundreds of thousands of dollars a year on security. No matter how much money you have, it's useless without health and safety. Also, you need to maintain a learning mindset. The crypto world evolves too quickly; if you don't learn, you'll fall behind. I'm still reading books and exchanging ideas with other traders. Even managing a multi-million dollar fund, I dare not stop learning.

VII. Book Recommendations and Future Plans: Using Influence to Give Voice to the Chinese Community

Mia: You often recommend the book *Cycles*. Which points in that book have influenced you the most? Besides trading books, what other books do you enjoy reading? Wesley: The core idea of *Cycles* is that "everything and everyone has cycles"—whether it's the market, stocks, or people, nothing can stay at its peak forever. Knowing how to maintain composure after a downturn and then rise to new highs is especially important for trading. Howard Marks wrote this book by compiling decades of notes he gave to investors; even Buffett loves reading his notes. The content is very solid and worth reading repeatedly. Besides trading books, I like reading novels, such as *The Snow Sword* and *The Mysterious Immortal*—these novels have now been adapted into TV series. The protagonists in them all have a rebellious spirit, emphasizing the unity of knowledge and action, and doing righteous things, which has greatly influenced my personality.

Mia: You're still active in the crypto space. What are your plans for the future?

Wesley: I want to build more influence now. It's not about the money; I feel influence is so important in this era. It can solve many problems that money alone can't. More importantly, I want to do something for the Chinese community and improve our standing in the United States. Too few Chinese Americans are willing to speak out; everyone is used to quietly making a fortune, but someone needs to stand up for their rights. For example, if I have the opportunity in the future, I'd like to try being a member of Congress, like Musk or Trump, using my influence to do something practical. Even if there are risks, doing the right thing is worthwhile.

Disclaimer

This article is for informational purposes only. The views expressed are solely those of the author and do not represent the position of OKX. This article is not intended to provide (i) investment advice or recommendations; (ii) an offer or solicitation to buy, sell, or hold digital assets; or (iii) financial, accounting, legal, or tax advice. We do not guarantee the accuracy, completeness, or usefulness of such information. Holding digital assets (including stablecoins and NFTs) involves high risk and may result in significant volatility. Past performance is not indicative of future results. OKX assumes no liability for any potential losses. You should carefully consider whether trading or holding digital assets is suitable for you based on your financial situation. Consult your legal/tax/investment professional regarding your specific circumstances. Not all products and services are available in all regions, and products and services may be restricted or unavailable in some regions. You are solely responsible for understanding and complying with applicable local laws and regulations.