Conversation with Eric Ly: How does the co-founder of LinkedIn cross-border blockchain

On November 24, Focus, Cointelegraph's Chinese online ace interview column, was successfully concluded. The moderator of this sharing is Vadim Krekotin, CEO & Co-founder of Cointelegraph Chinese, and the guest is Eric Ly. Eric Ly is a Vietnamese Chinese refugee, a serial entrepreneur, a top student at Stanford University, and the entrepreneurial partner of Reid Hoffman, the "King of Connections" in Silicon Valley, etc., but the most well-known title should be the co-founder and first CTO of LinkedIn.

The theme of this event is "Conversation with Eric Ly: How the co-founder of LinkedIn crosses the blockchain". Eric's two milestones in the blockchain field from LinkedIn and the story behind the Hub project.

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Wonderful point of view:

Eric Ly: With each cycle like this, the power of cryptocurrencies and blockchain technology grows stronger and stronger until it truly becomes something overwhelming that people can't ignore.

Eric Ly: I describe blockchain and cryptocurrency as rare things. They are so novel and have potential. You can use these technologies and ideas to do something and create new value. You must grasp these ideas And use it well.

Eric Ly: Blockchain technology is a way of looking at the world from a completely different perspective. In a way, the new field of blockchain is better structured than today’s centralized and traditional platforms, which still have a lot of problems.

Eric Ly: The innovation of Hub is that compared to many other projects that focus on decentralized identity, Hub basically adds an incentive layer on top of all these concepts to guide people to conduct transactions in a trustworthy way , through a reward mechanism or a variety of reward systems. Therefore, we hope to promote trust through this incentive mechanism.

Eric Ly: If there is any way to disrupt the really big platforms today, the only way is to adopt blockchain and cryptocurrencies. No other technology can do it.

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The following is a wonderful record of the sharing process:

Vadim: Hello, everyone, my name is Vadim, and I am the Chinese co-founder and CEO of Cointelegraph. It is our honor to have Eric Ly as our guest today. So I'm going to really enjoy our conversation today.

Eric: Vadim. It was a pleasure talking to you today. Hello everyone! It's a pleasure to introduce myself and what I've been working on lately.

Vadim: Let's start with the first question: what is your practical experience as a co-founder and CTO of LinkedIn. Many of us are dying to know, and it's true for me personally. Can you tell us about your entrepreneurial background? How did you start your business?

Eric: Of course. I'm so excited to share my story and I've talked about it many times. By now, LinkedIn has been known to the world, it is the largest professional network in the world, with 600-700 million users.

But at the beginning, in 2002, LinkedIn was not well-known. At that time, it was in the period of the last "Internet bubble burst". At that time, many investors believed that the Internet had no future. It's surprising. A group of us had been friends before getting into Stanford. We had an interesting idea about how people connect online. We found a problem. In Silicon Valley, many people change jobs frequently, and job mobility is very high. So, when people change jobs, their networks move, and it becomes difficult to track them. So we decided to create a platform where we can track our own network and we can know where they are. If we need to start a company, or we're working on an exciting project, where are the people we want to continue working with?

So LinkedIn was created out of this need. It's great to see that at first someone realized their need, and as LinkedIn expanded, the idea became very useful to professionals around the world.

In the beginning, our expectations for this platform were very, very small. Because of the dot-com boom and subsequent bust, and their market capitalization and other factors, the dot-com industry was pretty sluggish at the time, and people were frustrated with the dot-com. We thought it was an interesting idea and worth trying, and we thought some people would be interested in it, so we started this project.

In many ways, this experience mirrors what has happened in the blockchain and cryptocurrency space over the past few years. After the rise of the cryptocurrency field, it ushered in the encryption winter. Now we have entered a new market segment. It will be very interesting to see how it develops in the future. But in a lot of ways, I think there are some very interesting parallels between where LinkedIn was when it first started and what’s happening in the blockchain and crypto space right now.

Vadim: Exactly. A lot of people are just repeating the dot-com bubble scenario, right? We can see a similar “bubble” happening now in the blockchain and crypto space. Usually, we have a few years of cold weather followed by a bull market. Those who have been in the crypto space for a while are used to this situation. But for many people in traditional industries, this is like the Internet bubble in the late 19th and early 20th centuries?

So, what do you think now? Do you think it's exactly the same? Or what things do you think are the same? Or, what's different, what's the biggest difference?

Eric: Yes. This is an interesting question. There are many similarities between what happened in the past and what is happening now. In fact, when I first entered the blockchain space a few years ago, I looked up what is the Hype Cycle. Research firm Gardner has published a chart that gives people a visual idea of ​​what the so-called Hype Cycle looks like, and it does exist. A classic hype curve occurs when a lot of people get excited about something.

Especially when cryptocurrencies or company stocks are going up. People get super excited, but when expectations are too high, it's nearly impossible to meet. After that, the whole market would crash, and the market would react in a very extreme way. Because no market was sound or sound, it crashed. That might be an overly negative reaction, right?

But this is exactly what happened. In 2018, I remember, I was sitting in a room with a group of investors and I gave a speech (Bitcoin, Ethereum and other altcoins crashed at the end of 2018) and I could only reassure these investors that this is normal , will rebound in the future. But that's hard to get across to investors, because that pessimism has carried over into 2019, and it's hard to generate any optimism from investors. But as you said, Vadim, cryptocurrencies have had their ups and downs over the years.

Generally speaking, the market turns in an optimistic direction every time. It's a growing force. This may be when this heightened positivity is maintained. I think it's interesting that in terms of parallels to the dotcom bust, there's always some new innovation that somehow leads to the next innovation and then further legitimizes or validates blockchain technology the value of. So, with each cycle like this, the power of cryptocurrencies and blockchain technology grows stronger and stronger until it truly becomes something overwhelming that people can't ignore.

So I'm very excited about this seemingly rebound situation that we're going through. We're very much looking forward to what's going to happen later this year or next year, and I think that's going to generate a lot of optimism then.

Vadim: Yes. There are definitely a lot of people who are really excited about what's going on right now. A lot of analysts are comparing previous Bitcoin holdings to current holdings, and we just did that recently. Many people are waiting for new highs. let us wait and see. We're definitely going to be optimistic. Because, from my personal point of view, I think it helps the crypto industry finally achieve mass adoption. In order for more people to understand cryptocurrency, Bitcoin, at least start learning and teaching more about it. I think that's one of the very positive impacts, like you said about the Hype Cycle.

My next question is about cryptocurrencies, because you have great experience in the traditional tech industry, co-founding companies, running companies, creating compelling applications and new platforms. Then, one day, you hear about cryptocurrencies, so how did you learn about cryptocurrencies and blockchain?

Eric: Yes. It was really an eye-opening experience for me. I briefly describe my journey in the field of encryption and how I became a believer in the field. To be honest, I didn't get in touch with this field until 2017, which is relatively late. In fact, some of my friends told me about the incredible ICOs and what's going on in the crypto space. I had an understanding of blockchain at the time, but only superficially. So, I decided to learn it. Cryptocurrencies are definitely part of the blockchain. Blockchain knowledge is often the technical side of cryptocurrencies.

It took me months to really understand all the concepts. After a few months, all of these concepts really hit me. I would say that blockchain is an excellent system. I think I appreciate a lot of it, like the Internet, it's a new way of solving problems. There are a lot of brilliant ideas that led to the creation of the Internet. Today, we all live in the network field of the Internet, we cannot do without it, sometimes it is more important than food. But the blockchain has achieved the same achievements as the Internet, and the blockchain has brought the same surprises. If you will, learn about the concepts of blockchain and cryptocurrencies, which are very different and very new. You can see that they at least have the potential to really change the digital world as we know it. The ideas contained in the blockchain are really fantastic. That's what gets me excited because it's not that common.

As an entrepreneur, you need to master this new approach. I describe blockchain and cryptocurrencies as rare things, they are so new and have potential, you can use these technologies and ideas to do something and create new value, you must grasp these ideas and adopt them well .

So, I think that's what I see that really excites me. I believe the promise of the cryptocurrency and blockchain space will really be disruptive to this small world as we know it today.

Vadim: Sounds good. The amazing thing is that it actually took you a few months to learn and organize all this information. Because it took years for many people, especially regulators, to understand these concepts. It is very difficult for them to do these things. And for those new to the crypto space, it takes much longer. I think your previous background and experience has brought you a lot of benefits and helped you learn quickly in this new field of cryptocurrency.

You just said that you only entered the encryption field in 2017, which is relatively late. Of course, the first batch of entrants began to enter the encryption field from 2011, 2012, and 2013, such as the founders of the Blockchain Foundation and the Bitcoin Foundation. But I think the hype cycle of 2017 is when the crypto space gets a lot of attention. Blockchain technology is disruptive, and it is at this time that many governments are beginning to take it seriously and start thinking about launching central bank digital currencies and using blockchain technology directly in the systems they use. Because they finally realize that this is a new reality of the world and you can't resist it. When the world is changing, you can't stay in the traditional old system. So they have to be taken more seriously, right?

I'm very interested in this aspect. I want to know about your entrepreneurial journey. You have been involved in the blockchain field for about ten years from LinkedIn. So, what have you learned from these two life milestones?

Eric: Yes. I'm probably one of the few people who holds a mainstream view in crypto, and I bring that view into the crypto community. There are a lot of people who have already started to enter the field during the first wave of encryption and blockchain space, and they are very excited to participate. There is an American proverb "I know what I should do", which means that I have started a business many times. So, I can see things that first-time entrepreneurs don't necessarily see. I'm probably one of the more mainstream people in the field right now.

After understanding these concepts, and seeing what's going on in the blockchain and crypto space, I'm starting to see some of the limitations of the current internet system, actually social networking and social media, and even the businesses I've been a part of , project and platform limitations. Even Cointelegraph reports that social media is one of the most broken systems on the internet. I actually started thinking about this on my own, and I was thinking how would blockchain technology help solve these very serious problems? This is something that interests me very much. So what are these problems? I think the problem is these very large centralized platforms, especially in social media, that control a lot of information about users and control their data privacy. I'm not sure if they are really privacy safe. In terms of economic benefits, many of these platforms include advertising marketing, which means that the revenue will actually go to these centralized platforms.

That's the problem. But on social networks, we have seen a lot of fake news and information. I think that's one of the big hurdles facing social platforms today. I don't think any kind of centralized solution can really solve these problems. These platforms are so large and have so many users that no single centralized approach can solve the major problems on these platforms. Aside from solving all the problems that exist with the incentives of these platforms, centralized solutions really don’t work.

So, I really think that blockchain is a way to solve these problems. Some of the core concepts surrounding blockchain are critical to the future, such as decentralization. In terms of filtering out disinformation and fake news, we need something stronger. I'm interested in decentralized identity and self-sovereign identity. I believe that the idea of ​​providing some kind of validation based on information on a decentralized platform is very important. Another aspect concerns the ownership of information.

I believe that users should be able to better control and track how they use their data, which leads to another very interesting concept in the blockchain space: portable data. Your data doesn't have to be locked up in a centralized platform. Your data truly belongs to you. As a user, you can bring it to any community, market or environment, and then use it to make a profit, and the centralized platform does not necessarily make you a profit.

It's a way of looking at the world from a completely different perspective. I think, in a way, this new space is better structured than today's centralized platforms and traditional platforms, which still have a lot of problems.

Vadim: Eric, what you said is really interesting. Especially when I hear you say that with my own ears. Because you have a lot of experience in this area, you have experience in the MIT Media Lab, you have experience in IBM, Apple, which was founded by Steve Jobs. And as a co-founder of LinkedIn, you've observed all of these issues, and LinkedIn is one of the most powerful platforms, maybe a little bit more niche than Facebook or Instagram. But at the right time, LinkedIn did a good job of the idea. So, I am 100% sure that your opinion has a place in our society. Therefore, the data should belong to everyone, not a centralized company owning the platform. This is a view that many people now support. I appreciate what you're doing in this direction, sounds interesting.

So can you tell us more about the Hub project? What's the story behind it? And how did you bring together all the things you mentioned in the project recently? What was your inspiration? Your What problems does the project address?

Eric: So we decided to really focus the Hub on the concept of trust, which is a concept related to reputation. Why is this concept so big, but so important? In my opinion, trust is a very important currency in the digital world. Because it will give people a chance. When we are doing some kind of business cooperation and transaction, we need to trust each other, someone gives us some information, do we trust them? Is the information they give us true? These are important things based on trust , interpersonal communication is a big problem.

So, in a way, we can build more trust between people, which will benefit the world, not just in terms of poetic philosophy, but also in terms of financial opportunities for people. Therefore, it is very important for the world to progress and increase trust. In the day we live in, more and more people rely on digital information.

LinkedIn is an example with regard to the processing of user information. So, in a way, we can really get real information about people, and we can learn to trust them more based on that information. So, I guess that's what we need. And blockchain, especially in the field of decentralized identity, offers some great answers to these questions.

In a way, we can have portable identities and verifiable identities that will benefit and create value for people around the world. The innovation of Hub is that compared to many other projects that focus on decentralized identity, Hub basically adds an incentive layer on top of all these concepts to guide people to conduct transactions in a trustworthy way, through some A reward mechanism or a variety of reward systems to achieve. Therefore, we hope to promote trust through this incentive mechanism.

So today, we created two basic ways to tell people how to foster trust. The first one is to create a community platform Hub, which allows people to participate in community activities with each other. And then, ultimately, we want to build marketplaces in those communities.

All of these interactions require trust. We are creating platforms for people to interact. We're also getting to know them and helping them create a new identity that hopefully will be very beneficial to them when they interact with a platform. Second, take a more centralized approach to verifying people's identities. In the US, we call this a "background check." "Background checks" are widely used when companies decide to hire employees. They check the background of employees to ensure that they meet the requirements of the application, such as whether they have a criminal background.

Vadim: Was your current company founded in 2018?

Eric: Yes. We took a very direct approach of trying to bring verified identities to the blockchain eventually, and then provide an incentive system to promote the use of cryptocurrencies, so that people can adopt this system faster, otherwise there would be no Incentives. That's what we're doing.

Vadim: Sounds interesting. Your project Hub has native tokens. So, what is the difference between native tokens, utility tokens, security tokens, or governance tokens? Is Hub another popular governance token right now? What does Hub mean? Why is it called Hub? An interesting question because you mentioned trust several times. So, I was thinking why not call it a trust token? Why call it a Hub?

Eric: I think there are already other projects launching trust tokens. But what we like about the word hub is that it means bringing people together in some meaningful way, and then they can have meaningful interactions. So we like the word, we decided to use it. It fit perfectly with some of the concepts around the community, so I thought it was a good fit. Also, Hub consists of 3 letters, which is also suitable as a token name. So we don't need to change the token name and project name too much.

But how is it used? There are three main uses. It's really a utility token that can be used across the various platforms that we define.

When people communicate with each other, there will be a kind of stickiness, and we have thought about allowing people to stake their Hub tokens. If they transact in a trustworthy manner, they will get their tokens back after the transaction is complete and will be rewarded with additional tokens from the Hub platform. This allows them to continue to own more tokens and be able to participate in larger, more significant transactions, which hopefully further incentivizes them to engage actively in a trustworthy manner. This is the first use.

The second use is an intrinsic reward system. When people trade with each other, credible transactions are rewarded. We built a reward system based on these tokens. People can earn benefits through healthy cooperation.

And then the third use, it has real utility in these communities that look like they're early in the market. People can use the Hub to purchase products and services in these marketplaces and exchange products and services with others. Our vision is that in the future, Hub will become a currency to solve the problem of using products and services.

Vadim: Sounds interesting. You started the project in 2017, and since then you have focused on developing the platform, trying different models, and how to make it better. What about the current situation, I can go to the Hub platform and sign up, be one of the first users, at least get some trial tokens or something like that. So, when can we sign up?

Eric: If we're going to build a world that changes our minds, it's going to take a while. So we've been working on it. I am very happy that these two projects have been launched. The Hub platform was launched in April 2018. KarmaCheck actually launched in January 2020. Both platforms have achieved great success in their respective paths and have seen tremendous growth in 2020 as a community platform with users. In fact, a large part of it is due to the pandemic, because it forces people to do more virtual transactions online, so we benefit from it.

KarmaCheck does a great job because it takes a new approach to doing background checks and verifying people's identities. It's an enterprise product, and it's gaining a lot of traction with customers, and it's driving real revenue to customers, and we're really happy about that. We've been following the DeFi space, and there's been a lot of interest in it over the past few months. We believe there will be some relationship between what we do based on trust and DeFi. Maybe we can discuss this later.

Vadim: As you said, KarmaCheck is up and growing fast. So, in this case, it will be very interesting to learn about the Hub community and how the Hub platform works. Why should we join this platform?

Eric: It's a new kind of social platform in a way. When I say community, it's actually the closest thing to a social network. We're really trying to reframe the social platform in a new way. I think one of the main problems with social platforms right now is that they're so massive that there's a lot of noise on the platforms. You often get commercial news and advertisements, and some fake news, and I think it's a terrible experience.

I attribute these issues mostly to the fact that the incentives on these platforms aren't really structured, and so these issues arise where people are motivated to share as much information as they can, even if they don't want to hear it, or don't want to receive the wrong information. We're trying to bring really meaningful interactions through this platform, help people connect with other trusted people, and take the quality of discussions and interactions to a higher level by having trusted interactions with relevant people.

So, if people are looking for some kind of meaningful interaction, I think they should definitely join the Hub. Because this is an attempt to reduce interference, increase the utility of these platforms, and even bring potential money-making opportunities for users in the future. That's what we do.

Vadim: Sounds interesting. So, we're collaborating to bring the Hub Protocol into the mainstream, to get more people to start using it, to adopt it in their everyday lives.

Eric: First of all, we are building our own community on the Hub platform. By the way, you can find it on hub.com. But we also realized that there are still many communities in the world today, and we found that these existing offline communities did not have a good platform to build their online communities. You can certainly build a community on a platform like Facebook. However, Facebook is a very noisy platform. Not something like a structured platform and an advertising system -- that's what gives community organizers some control over how they manage their communities. So what the Hub provides is a way for community organizers to take control of how they want to manage their communities.

We are working with existing communities, including major business communities. They want to build an online community, and Hub is a good online community. They're also holding events, and we're using the wave of virtual events to further engage people and bring them into the community, which allows the platform to grow and also give people access to our platform. We're working with mainstream communities and organizations, and we're working with the crypto community.

For example, we have established a good partnership with the Litecoin Foundation, and the Litecoin Foundation has adopted our platform. They decided to move their community over from Reddit, which itself is a very successful platform. But they saw some benefits in moving to the Hub, so they are now going to grow their official community on the Hub. We work with some other very well-known crypto projects that will also develop on the Hub.

We want to continue to work with existing communities and show them real benefits. When you have a blockchain-based platform, and you have cryptocurrency as an incentive mechanism, you should let the existing community experience the benefits.

We believe that if we do it right, when people interact with the platform, everything will work smoothly, and people may not even know that our platform is based on blockchain and provides tokens. We help people create their own identities, and we give them rewards to benefit from it, all they need is positive interactions or trusted collaborations with other people on the platform.

Vadim: Yes. I think your project has one of the best advisory boards around. The others we found on your site are very key people in the blockchain industry in Asia.

It makes sense. How are people supposed to communicate and exchange stuff if they support you and rely on your philosophy of trust, fair trade, experience, everything you do? I think there are a lot of different use cases on your platform.

It makes sense to me. My next question is, we know a lot of traditional platforms like LinkedIn, Instagram. China has other social media platforms like WeChat, Weibo. You are familiar with LinkedIn, do you think a platform like LinkedIn can adopt blockchain and cryptocurrency? Or is it implausible, impossible?

Eric: You asked this question before, and I was thinking about how to answer your question. So, my short answer is that by the time LinkedIn and other platforms adopt blockchain and cryptocurrency, I think concepts like blockchain and cryptocurrency will become mainstream. So, in a way, it's a long wait.

I think so because blockchain and cryptocurrencies represent a huge difference between current business models. Today's companies must complete a very disruptive transformation in their own business models to truly adapt to these new ways of operating. I think they're too invested in traditional ways of making money, and they're having a hard time adapting. This is why I am so passionate about these new technologies, because I believe there will be a new generation of companies that operate very differently, not even limited to companies. They can operate in very different ways, create very significant value, and have a cryptocurrency, a token of enormous value.

Blockchain technology will ultimately provide a great option for today's platforms and companies. If there is any way to disrupt the really big platforms of today, the only way is to adopt blockchain and cryptocurrencies. No other technology can do it.

Vadim: We know that Facebook tried to launch the Libra project, and a lot of people got excited about it last year. But so far, we haven't seen much results. In fact, it appears to be in beta and not yet available. Like they try to meet all the regulatory requirements, solve all the compliance issues and so on.

So, it's definitely been a long way. But at the same time, we can see that it is much easier for traditional investment institutions to start investing in and adopting cryptocurrencies. Even for them, it took a long time to get started.

And this year, we've seen companies like MicroStrategy and Square buying bitcoin in large numbers. This is definitely a good sign for the crypto industry. But at the same time, I heard the same news in 2017 and 2018, businesses looking to buy and convert some of their assets into cryptocurrencies. But they just started doing it this year, and maybe they've done some of it before. However, it was indeed this year that they released the news to let us know. So, I thought it was interesting.

From another perspective, I would like to ask you more about digital identity. How digital identities work. You mentioned digital identity today, so I want to know more, should it be public or private, or semi-private, in your opinion? And how should those who have personal data manage that data. Because managing data also requires some knowledge and time.

Eric: In the West, the question of identity has been a difficult problem or a topic that has been studied for a long time. Even before blockchain and cryptocurrencies, personal data was a topic of conversation. The reason it's so important is that people care deeply about their identities, and knowing someone and their identities tells you a lot about their lives. So it's really an asset that people are particularly sensitive to and trying to protect. That's why people are interested in these fields and work hard for them. Especially in the 21st century, with these social networking platforms, people need to be more concerned about their identity and how to use this information.

So, what is decentralized identity trying to do? There's a term called "self-sovereign identity," which is a particular adoption of decentralized identity that I think has a lot of promise in the future. Because it solves some of the major problems that arise from keeping identity information through centralized platforms.

First, decentralized identity allows people to truly own and control their identity data. Identity is power, and if you can control it, you can control your own privacy. But you can also use your information to your financial advantage. For example, you have a degree from MIT, which gives you an edge over people who don't have those qualifications for a job. But what's more interesting is if you store this information on the blockchain, which is very possible. Therefore, Hub's innovation lies in transferring identity information from the centralized platform to the blockchain through an incentive mechanism. We're trying to do that by creating a platform.

In a way, we can help people move their identities onto the blockchain, and they'll be able to use their identities in these new ways of creating value.

Finally, the third aspect that I think is very interesting, is that by doing this, it will enable people to share a part of their identity that they want to share at the time. So the concept of anonymity or pseudonymity is very important, because when you have to share your identity in order to get work done, if you only share the meaningful parts and don't share other irrelevant parts, anonymity will help a lot. great effect. Because, there are many examples in the world of being discriminated against because of certain aspects of identity.

If some aspect of their identity, such as race, where they live, or their age or gender is not important, they don't have to show it. And then I think the other benefit of this kind of decentralized identity system is that there are some really great ideas and opportunities in this technology that I think the world should take advantage of.

Vadim: That's an interesting point, especially for a visionary like you. See what kind of problems our community has, what kind of problems we need to solve, and honestly, even for me personally, I have a lot of experience, every year when my personal identity is used, I have no idea who is using it and what purpose does he have. So I think thousands of people all over the world have the same doubts right now. Next, we move on to cryptocurrencies. What is your most valued value in cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin, Ethereum, etc.?

Eric: A controversial topic is that the reason why governments are so sensitive to cryptocurrencies is because cryptocurrencies have a high value. They want to protect their sovereign currency from cryptocurrencies. Because they know that cryptocurrencies have great potential for value, they immediately take a hit on cryptocurrencies. Also, the interesting thing about cryptocurrency is that it is a currency without borders.

Why is this interesting? In my opinion, in the first world, cryptocurrencies are not necessary for a country to have a stable currency. But in developing countries and third world countries, cryptocurrencies do have a lot of value. While cryptocurrencies are highly volatile, they are relatively stable without severe inflation, or the risk of inflation that some national currencies have. So you can continue to hold some of these borderless assets. I think that's why people are so fascinated by cryptocurrencies.

Another reason why cryptocurrencies exist is that we have the opportunity to create rewards or game mechanics around cryptocurrencies, defining who can benefit from it. And, we can essentially structure the market we want so that the participants get paid out of the cryptocurrency. Cryptocurrencies create a whole new way for people to interact and benefit from it. I think it's really, really interesting.

I guess the question is really whether cryptocurrencies can exist outside of more traditional sovereign currencies as they do today. For the topic of the digital yuan that you have, and the topic of the digital dollar that they will also discuss, I think they (digital sovereign currencies) are very valuable, but also have the same nationalistic color as before. I think the answer is yes. Because at the end of the day, we will be able to use different currency systems for certain markets or certain incentive institutions that we want to build, and different currencies can be exchanged between them. So, to some extent, we can build up and down channels between cryptocurrencies and fiat currencies. It will create a richness of up and down channels around different kinds of (crypto vs. fiat) interactions and markets that bring more value.

Vadim: Sounds good. As far as I am concerned, like the most famous cryptocurrency Bitcoin, which has been around for 12 years. We just celebrated Bitcoin's 12th birthday. Right at this very moment, we are experiencing yet another Bitcoin bull run. What is your opinion on this? This bull run came after the DeFi boom, right? What is your take on this bull market? What does it have to do with DeFi? What do you think?

Eric: Well, I really hope that the recent increase in the price of Bitcoin is the beginning of a long-term increase in the value of Bitcoin. This Bitcoin bull run has reached a whole new level. In recent years, Bitcoin has reached certain highs in its history. But just like the technology maturity curve I just said, after the cold winter, the value created by Bitcoin will grow very steadily. Because, every time a market is tested, new innovations are proven, and they are here to stay.

The latest example is DeFi, although I am disappointed by what has happened in DeFi recently, but I think it is really just the beginning for DeFi. I think DeFi will exist in cryptocurrency and blockchain for a long time, and it will become a value service through cryptocurrency and blockchain. This is a new sector of cryptocurrency that has been verified to be successful, and Bitcoin is the leader of cryptocurrency and represents cryptocurrency to a certain extent. I think this will be the beginning of long-term steady growth for Bitcoin.

There are many people who are predicting how much Bitcoin will eventually rise to, $200,000, or a higher price. We'll have to wait and see. I think it's going to eventually reach a surprising high. I'm very excited about this.

Vadim: I have another question. Do you personally hold some cryptocurrencies, such as Bitcoin, or long-term or short-term altcoins?

Eric: Yes, I do have some. I am definitely a believer. So I have to prove it with actions. But for sure, I'm not a speculator. Because I spend most of my time concentrating on our project. So, I don't have a lot of time to look at the graphs. But most of my (crypto) holdings are Bitcoin. This is the pursuit of quality. But I also dabbled in some altcoins. I believe I'm doing relatively well (in this regard). So, I may be one of the few people who has a serious interest in cryptocurrencies without speculating on prices to increase or decrease their positions. Because I don't have time (to do such things).

Vadim: Probably that's the best course of action. Hold the currency, and then forget, three to five years, it will surprise you.

Eric: Unfortunately, all major cryptocurrencies are bullish right now, so portfolios look good today.

Vadim: Interesting, decentralized finance. What do you think of this new trend? Because it's been around for a while. This is nothing new. In fact, we can go back to 2018, when Aave has appeared, and we can already see some other projects. At that time we were working on decentralized finance. Staking became popular in 2019, and many projects are doing things related to staking. Only in 2020 are we seeing the rise of decentralized finance. Of course, we can also see the downturn in decentralized finance-related projects, especially in terms of price, with a large number of tokens being excessively held at the same time. Can I take this as a rumor? Many people say that this is the second wave of decentralized finance. What are your thoughts on this? What do you think?

Eric: Yes, I really think that DeFi is still in its infancy. For a new concept like DeFi, it took me a while to get the hang of it. The decentralized financial system designed by DeFi in many aspects still needs hundreds of years to upgrade. It won't be replaced overnight. However, I believe that DeFi itself has the potential to replace previously inefficient processes and make them more efficient through decentralization.

I think that's really the mission of DeFi. I believe that DeFi will develop in two different ways, and recently DeFi needs to solve some simple concepts around borrowing and lending. In my opinion, a lot of people will be interested in this, because it can benefit them all, and it will generate hype and investment.

And I think it's great. Because it shows people the possibilities of what DeFi can do. But I also see that there are still some projects that are looking at the potential of DeFi from a long-term perspective. They are trying to really solve some very traditional financial process problems in order to create far-reaching long-term value. Those projects will spend more time developing upgrades. Ultimately, we believe that DeFi's financial system will subvert traditional financial processes.

These companies have been quietly struggling for three years, they will create value in the future, and they have longer-term benefits. So it's very exciting from my point of view. The projects with real value will come from those who have done long-term work to cultivate DeFi. This is great, and some recent DeFi projects have shown the way to everyone.

Vadim: Yes. It's no secret that 2020 has gotten crazier in many ways, not least because of the pervasive stress that the COVID-19 pandemic has brought to many around the globe. So, can blockchain and cryptocurrencies solve the problems we are currently facing in the 21st century? If so, what problems does blockchain and cryptocurrencies solve for us?

Eric: I think DeFi must be one of the pillars (in the field of blockchain and cryptocurrency). Because whenever there is a problem dealing with money, people are very interested. I think this will be a real trend that can continue, and DeFi is enabled by blockchain and encryption technology. Again, DeFi is in its infancy, it's in its own hype cycle, and it's here to stay. This is the first point.

Personally, for the last few years, I have only been concerned with the veracity of information that exists on the Internet. Given the state of the web in today's society, the dissemination of existing information and the means by which people handle their private data is indeed a pressing issue.

I think all of these things are at an inflection point. I do believe that to get into a better world, we need more secure systems, we need more reliable ways to interact with each other, and we all need a solution to these problems.

So, this became a job that I was very interested in. By the way, the work I am doing is also related to the DeFi field. Ultimately, with the ever-increasing number of transactions and assets that can be involved in smart contracts, we need to gain some insight into the other party we are interacting with. Are they trustworthy? Another point, sometimes we may not need to disclose all their identity information. In the end, maybe we just need them to provide certain identifying information. In my opinion, we still have a long way to go in terms of stability and DeFi security.

We're going to be chatting very soon about one of the new areas where the Hub will work, and it's going to be a very exciting area that will have an immediate impact on the world.

Vadim: Sounds exciting. So, what is your vision? All these disruptive technologies, such as blockchain technology, and the technologies in the field of AI artificial intelligence that I have learned about you before, etc., how should they be combined? Where will it be led? You have previous experience in the field of AI, so why not share your views.

Eric: Essentially, blockchain and encryption technology will bring positive impact to the world. There are many real experiments today, and some technologies are emerging. Some of these technologies are good, some of them are dubious, and some of them are being researched. Ultimately these technologies will lead the charge. I think that's going to be the more secure digital future we have. Then again, we will all rely on all the information online to help us interact with each other. We will increasingly rely on this technology. But today we are taking risks, and the shortcomings and limitations of blockchain technology are being revealed.

To take the technology we rely on to the next level, better and safer, we're getting reliable transactional information. This is the blockchain technology in my eyes. The same is true for Disney and artificial intelligence. Cryptocurrencies can indeed take us to better places or have more security features. That's all I can see.

We can see the scale of global GDP on the Internet, and blockchain technology and some of the work we are doing can really get a big share of it. The global GDP is about $142 trillion, which is a big number, and that's what the people of the world are worth.

Eric: Yes, indeed. I do believe that blockchain-based technologies will undertake, create and be responsible for trillions of dollars of value creation in the future. It's exciting. It’s rewarding to be able to work on a project like this, which will ultimately create trillions of dollars in value.