Guests:

The following is the transcript of this interview:

Xiong Yue:I'm not bragging, haha, my understanding and cognition at that time (2012) was actually not much different from today's.

Bitcoin is a great invention that allows us to transfer value on the Internet without relying on third parties. And it's truly decentralized.

We all know that the (EOS founder) BM teacher said a lot of "What if" in the past two days, which aroused concerns in the EOS community. But Satoshi Nakamoto has been "running away" for many years, and Bitcoin is getting better and better.

However, if there must be any new cognition, it is to think clearly about the more essential and core aspects of Bitcoin during the expansion debate between the previous year and last year.

When Bitcoin first came out, several of its features were advertised at the same time, such as the total amount of 21 million will not be exceeded, such as individuals truly controlling their own property, such as sending to any place in the world at a very low rate. No one is going to rank these attributes in an order.

Later, with the development of Bitcoin and the number of users increasing, a small group of people in the community gradually began to call for expansion. Only then did I discover that there were two different visions for Bitcoin.

Some people think that daily payments, such as buying coffee, should also go on-chain.

Another group of people pointed out from a practical point of view that even if it is expanded, it is difficult for Bitcoin to be used for daily payments. It is meaningless to increase the TPS from a few to tens of hundreds, and can only use the upper-level Lightning Network or offchain wallet to pay.

When these two visions conflict, I do not hesitate to side with the latter.

Because what attracts me to Bitcoin is not how convenient it is to pay, but that it is a free currency. Compared with the convenience of payment, it cannot compare to Alipay anyway.

I personally agree with Richard Heart's statement: "So you have to figure out this pyramid. The top layer is to resist censorship; second is security; third is expanding publicity and marketing; fourth is value orientation; fifth is user experience."

Other than that, my perception of Bitcoin has not changed much, because Bitcoin itself has not changed much.

Xiong Yue:In 2012, there was basically no Bitcoin circle formed. Ha ha. At that time, there was only one bitcoin company in China, which is now closed bitcoin China. OKCoin (OKEx) and Huobi have not opened yet.

Even today, the domestic Bitcoin circle is a very small group, according to my observation, there are at most three to five million people. It was even smaller at the time, and there were a few sporadic people on Weibo.

But these few people are preachers at the level of kings, including the king of currency on Weibo, Bitcoin, Changjia, Bitcoin QQagent (Wu Jihan), P2PBUCKS (my colleague Sihai), and Li Xiaolai. They are all very advanced concepts. people.

At that time, basically no one knew about Bitcoin. Occasionally, those who heard about it basically thought that Bitcoin had no value, a bubble, and a Ponzi scheme. We quarrel with these people on the Internet every day.

Since 2013, some people from the venture capital circle have gradually entered the market, and gradually began to form a currency circle. Everyone has made many attempts around Bitcoin, and most of them have failed. For example, there is a pineapple market that wants to be a bitcoin mall, and Gempay that wants to be a bitcoin payment.

Many people envy those who entered the market early, but in fact, those who entered the market early basically stepped on countless pitfalls, and those who entered the market in 2017 may not be happy.

The most impressive thing is that Bitcoin, the king of currency, once told me that Bitcoin would rise to 1,000 yuan. I thought to myself, are you crazy?

At that time, Bitcoin had just risen from more than 60 yuan to more than 100 yuan.

Xiong Yue: My undergraduate major is food science, and my master's degree will follow suit. But I became obsessed with economics when I was about to graduate from my master's degree. After graduation, I went to the factory as a management trainee for more than two years, which was generally boring.

At the end of 2013, Bitcoin experienced a surge, which made me a small profit just over two years after graduation. I began to look at my previous career, and I decided to say goodbye to my previous life.

At that time, I had already accumulated some experience in economics. The "Tragedy of the Euro" I introduced has also been published, which allowed me to start to have some connections in the Austrian academic circle, and I decided to go a little deeper in this direction.

So I wrote to the author of "The Tragedy of the Euro" and one of my later teachers, Professor Philipp Bagus, asking him to recommend me to read the master's program of Professor Jesus Huerta de Soto. There was a reply soon. Then I quit my job.

Xiong Yue:Tongtianyi means almost everything to me. This is what defines me.

It is actually very difficult for a person's life to be truly remembered, but many economists who are pro-market around the world know that I have translated and introduced many works under the extremely difficult conditions in China. It's like when you think of Assange, you think of WikiLeaks, and when you think of Satoshi Nakamoto, you think of Bitcoin. I can hardly do anything greater in my life.

Of course, when it comes to Mr. BM, you never know whether to think of BTS, steem, EOS, or the next project, haha.

I first heard about Bitcoin from another member, Mikko. And I was able to accept the idea of ​​Bitcoin immediately because I read "The Ethics of Currency Production" translated by Mr. Dong Ziyun many years ago.

The "Secrets Behind the Currency" we translated together accumulated millions of views that year. It can be said that it is the enlightenment video of many people's currency knowledge.

Pan Chao, a researcher of MakerDao's Xiaoxianrou, is also a WoTong product, and "The Secret Behind Currency" also has Pan Chao's contribution.

The most special book for me is "The Theory of Pure Time Preference Interest" published by Shanghai University of Finance and Economics Press. This is a book I translated independently, full of weird and boring terms, just to prove my ability .

The difficulty of this book is abnormal. The young Austrian scholars I met in the United States couldn't understand it well, so I don't recommend it to everyone, because I'm more sure that it will be difficult for you to persist in reading the first ten pages.

I recommend that you read the "Ethics of Currency Production" and "The Tragedy of the Euro" mentioned just now, both of which are monetary theories from the perspective of the Austrian school.

If you don't know much about the Austrian School, you can read "Introduction to Austrian School Economics" and "Masters of the Austrian School".

Xiong Yue:No change, it has always been the Austrian school, which is the economics with the strongest explanatory power to the real world. My confusion and incomprehension about the world when I was a child found the answer in Austrian economics.

A person with a background in economics may have a neoclassical training first, but I transferred from engineering, so I was particularly firm in my support of the Austrian school from the beginning.

Austrian school economics is a dark line in the digital currency circle.

There are a lot of practitioners in the currency circle, especially the early practitioners, who are all believers of the Austrian school. Roasted cat is one of them.

At that time, I boldly bought the stock of Roasted Cat because I had known about this person on Douban for a long time.

Bitcoin, the king of currency just mentioned, was the most powerful evangelist in the early days of Bitcoin. He had tens of thousands of Weibo fans in 2012 and 2013, and his Austrian school foundation is very solid. He has also sponsored some of my translation projects.

Jeffrey Wernick, a well-known investor in the circle, is a Ph.D. in economics from the University of Chicago. I talked to him. He is a pure Austrian, a friend of Hayek, and he is also very familiar with the academic contributions of my mentor.

The CEO of Overstock is also a supporter of the Austrian School. When I was at the Mises Institute in 2015, he even gave me a video lecture. Recently, he plans to close the retail business and all in the blockchain.

BM, the founder of EOS, also claims to be a believer and practitioner of the Austrian school.

I don't like to cite Hayek and his "Denationalization of Money" to illustrate the close connection between the Austrian school and digital currency, because if Hayek is still alive, he probably doesn't like Bitcoin.

But those things that the Austrian school believes in are undoubtedly the ultimate value basis of digital currency. If there is no problem with the government-led monetary system, why do we bother to create another digital currency?

Xiong Yue:I haven't studied these investment masters in depth, because the investment experience is all beaten out of the market.

Masters of Superstition are really useless.

A few days ago, there was an article that maxed out the circle of friends, "The person who wrote the book to teach you to trade options broke his position".

Xiong Yue:

Xiong Yue:The certain thing is that benefits must coexist with risks, and even if the opportunities are there, only a few people will be able to perceive them. At that time, basically everyone in the currency circle was optimistic about Bitcoin and believed that it would be guaranteed, but only Zhao Dong sold his house to hold all Bitcoins.

What is constantly evolving is that the opportunity to make money is definitely different every time.

In the earliest days, as long as you are willing to buy coins, you will make a lot of money. Then in 2015, those who made money were mining, and in 2017, they invested in ICO. What the next opportunity will be, I don't know.

So this law is both definite and constantly evolving.

Xiong Yue:I started buying Bitcoin in August 2012. There are mainly two bear markets. The first time is that in December 2013, when the documents of the five ministries and commissions were issued, it began to plummet, and then rebounded several times, all the way to August 2015.

Now this is the second time. From the beginning of 2018 to the present, the graphics are similar.

If the bear market wants to survive, it can only rely on death. All the bosses I know have survived miserably in the bear market.

Positive cash flow is very important.

Xiong Yue:The most satisfying one is definitely Bitcoin.

It's time to vote, but I didn't vote too much, both neo and TRON.

I shouldn't have voted, I voted mainly for Roasted Cats and 796.

It's a pity that I knew that mining machines and exchanges would make money so early on, and ended up investing in these two scumbags.

Xiong Yue:I can only guarantee that Bitcoin is still there. Since the birth of cryptocurrencies, only Bitcoin has consistently ranked first, and the rankings of other digital currencies have experienced great changes. In fact, I was the one who pointed out earlier that there should be no faith in Ethereum.

People who entered the market in 2017 regarded Bitcoin and Ethereum as hard currencies in the currency circle, but in fact only Bitcoin.

When we had this conversation, 1 Ethereum was worth about 0.1 BTC.

(Now 1 eth is worth about 0.027 BTC)

Therefore, the first is Bitcoin, and the next 9 don't know.

Xiong Yue:Bixin is involved in all the categories you mentioned, but the cornerstone of our business is wallets.

If we re-elect, we should still be making wallets. In fact, we were already making wallets before Bixin (HaoBTC) was officially established in November 2014.

It was called OpenBlock at that time, and it was a multi-currency Onchain wallet on the web, supporting Bitcoin, Litecoin, Dogecoin and Darkcoin. I was also operating it at the time.

The wallet itself is a huge business.

Technically, offchain wallets are not fundamentally different from exchanges.

Xiong Yue:People are reliable. Daxiong, the founder of Bechuang, has worked in Babbitt, Li Xiaolai's team and Bixin. Therefore, Bixin not only invested in Bixin, but also Xiaolai and Laomao (Coin Capital, Longmen Fund).

Investing is investing in people.

With such a strong person, it is impossible not to vote.

Xiong Yue:It is difficult for other cities to break through. Some excellent companies may come out, but it is difficult to form an overall ecology.

Beijing, Shenzhen, and Hangzhou just correspond to BAT, and the foundation is really very good.

Blockchain is a global business and does not require a special zone.

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(He Yi and Xiong Yue)

Xiong Yue:

Xiong Yue:The freedom of wealth in my eyes is not to stop doing things, but not to be forced to do things you don't want to do for your livelihood. You must continue to do things.

If I leave the blockchain industry, or I am completely free of wealth, then I will not go to a certain industry again. I will first release an album and then do economics research.

Or the industry has returned to zero, so we can only move bricks.

Xiong Yue:I prefer startup-oriented investing. I work in this industry by myself, and invest in some projects that I know well in the industry. This will have a high success rate.

Xiong Yue:Everyone may have some misunderstandings about economics and rap.

Economists are probably the funniest group of people in the world.

The three goals of the famous economist Schumpeter are good economists, good knights and good lovers. Everyone should understand what the latter two mean.

David D. Friedman, son of Nobel laureate Milton Friedman, is also a famous economist. He is my friend. I posted a photo of him playing World of Warcraft. It has received 60 million views on Weibo. In fact, he also plays a lot of interesting things, such as writing novels.

The annual gathering of the Mises Research Institute, an Austrian holy land, has a karaoke session, which was convened by Robert Murphy, a well-known economist in the United States. He is also a supporter of Bitcoin and often participates in various currency circles Meeting.

During my year at the Mises Institute, the poster for this event was Eminem with Murphy's face on the P, and then my classmates and I sang songs by Eminem and Jay-Z while drinking. Rap plus R&B is the most mainstream music genre in the United States.

In addition, rap is not all casual expression. The part of casual expression is called freestyle, but it is more strictly controlled. A good rapper must step on every rhythm when rapping, pitch, volume, speed, Emotions and so on must be accurately grasped.

In fact, rap is just a form and carrier, it is juxtaposed with poetry or essays, you can use this form and carrier to express anything.

Many rappers use rap to express their observations on society, which happens to be what economics does.

Therefore, rap is naturally suitable for combining with economics.

There is a very famous song called "Keynes vs. Hayek", which basically sang the main academic differences between Keynes and Hayek.

Xiong Yue:Zhao Dong of DGroup (Dfund), Uncle Dong is a true entrepreneur. He once lost hundreds of millions of liquidated warehouses and owed tens of millions of debts, but he "recovered" again. Uncle Dong is very keen and has a deep understanding of the market.

Then there is my colleague Zongsihai, Sihai (the P2PBUCKS just mentioned) is also one of the earliest and most influential evangelists in China. He made Bibac, which is my bitcoin knowledge enlightenment website, and he also made China's first offchain wallet wallet.la (this is earlier than Bixin). Four Seas is proficient in both finance and technology.

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Internet interaction

Xiong Yue:The incentive models of many projects are very weird, so I can't continue playing in the end.

Many famous companies have issued coins, but holding their Token is useless.

That is to say, the currency has only supply and no demand.

Xiong Yue:The tokens of several exchanges have added the dividends of the exchange fees, which is considered to be a better design.

So if you look at the market capitalization rankings, BNB, HT, and OKB are all ranked very high.

Xiong Yue:It feels like a step backwards.

The things in the financial circle have been copied to the currency circle.

All the things pursued by the currency circle are gone, and it has returned to the previous way of playing in the financial circle.

I think it should be an improved ICO, such as that proposed by V God.

The main reason for the ICO chaos is that too much money is raised at once and there is no way to manage it.

In the future, it can be unlocked by milestones.

What performance goals have you achieved and how much will be unlocked for you.

Xiong Yue:There is no essential difference between a highly liquid financial asset, that is, currency. The ceiling is what human beings will be given in the future. On the left is human material wealth, on the right is Bitcoin.

In the future, it is likely that the units will continue to be split for use.

Xiong Yue:Regularly invest in BTC.

Be sure not to get out of the car. Many people got out of the car back then and couldn't come back.

There are really many names that were so popular back then, all of which have disappeared.

You can sell some coins, or hold some USDT, but don’t take a short position. A short position will make you no longer pay attention to this market.

I missed it when the bull market restarted.