Conversation with Binance Changpeng Zhao: In the middle ground of cryptocurrency

For most of the past year, Changpeng Zhao would stay in a small room less than 10 square meters in Singapore, communicating with the outside world online.

In the narrow space of this small country, the 44-year-old Canadian Chinese is remotely in charge of a company with a valuation of 100 billion US dollars[1]. In the online virtual world, Changpeng Zhao is better known as CZ, the founder and CEO of Binance, the world's largest cryptocurrency exchange.

Before the epidemic, Changpeng Zhao controlled Binance remotely while migrating around. From Japan, Malta, Uganda to Singapore, he traveled in countries and regions with relatively loose cryptocurrency policies, and met with local practitioners and government officials, such as the President of Uganda and the Prime Minister of Malta.

After the epidemic, he stopped in Singapore and used online meetings to connect nearly 3,000 Binance members in more than 60 countries and regions around the world. He added a "large device" to this new state—a green screen. When there is an official online event, he will stand in front of the green screen, erase the real environment of the room, and replace it with a virtual background with a bright yellow Binance logo.

Changpeng Zhao, who founded Binance with one hand and has great energy in the cryptocurrency world, does not have the typical personality of entrepreneurs in this field. He is not a firm believer or a fanatical preacher.

He is characterized by a "lack of character". Changpeng Zhao has a cropped cut and is neither tall nor short, neither fat nor thin. The same is true of his thinking and way of doing things. In the blockchain industry, he is the one who walks in the middle.

He was initially attracted by the freedom of cryptocurrencies. Since he sold his house in Shanghai and bought Bitcoin in 2014, he has gradually transferred most of his personal assets to cryptocurrencies. According to him, crypto assets now account for 99% of his personal wealth. He never bought fixed assets such as houses again because "the liquidity is too poor".

On the other hand, Changpeng Zhao, who values ​​freedom and mobility, also takes a positive view of the government's regulation of cryptocurrencies. He claims that he is by no means an extreme anarchist. He cannot imagine how society will function without the government and the police, and how the crowd will protect itself.

Binance, founded by Changpeng Zhao, is also an intermediate product.

Binance is not your typical company. It has no headquarters, no offices. Nearly 3,000 members around the world work from home. A Binance employee said that his on-boarding procedures were all flown to the city where HR is located and done at HR's home.

But Binance is not a typical decentralized community organization. It still has a CEO, Changpeng Zhao, with executive positions and reporting relationships. It uses both OKR and KPI task assessment systems. When determining OKR, Changpeng Zhao will first set his own OKR, and others will disassemble Changpeng Zhao’s OKR—just like most Internet companies that use OKR.

Behind the middle line and compatibility with contradictory things lies Changpeng Zhao's pragmatism. Centralization or decentralization, firmness or vacillation - he doesn't pay much attention to these evaluation dimensions with blockchain characteristics. His criteria for judging many things are: whether it is reasonable, beneficial, and necessary.

For example, on social media, although it is contrary to his nature of "not liking to show off", Changpeng Zhao is very active, because it can help him communicate with users. He has 2.6 million followers on Twitter, 700,000 more than Ethereum founder Vitalik Buterin.

In order to promote Binance’s key layout BSC (Binance Smart Chain, Binance Smart Chain, hereinafter referred to as BSC) in decentralized finance (Decentralized Finance, hereinafter referred to as DeFi) [2], Zhao Changpeng sometimes even deliberately went to Ethereum— —The outside world believes that BSC is against Ethereum. "It's good for BSC when BSC is smaller than Ethereum."

Acting with reasonable, pragmatic and useful standards, Changpeng Zhao is not so attached to the blockchain and cryptocurrency itself. He sold his house to buy coins to enter the industry in 2014, and he seems to have a firm stance. But during the downturn from 2015 to 2017, he once left the cryptocurrency field and entered the cultural goods trading industry, which was very popular at the time, and built a company that provided trading systems for stamp cards (stamps, coins, phone cards and other collectibles). company.

Judging from the results, not being completely firm on cryptocurrencies does not affect the success of Changpeng Zhao and Binance in this field. Changpeng Zhao believes that the core competitiveness of cryptocurrency exchanges is no different from similar products in the past, and they still serve users well. A pragmatic, compatible, and diverse style can help them serve as many global users as possible.

Against the background of the new round of bull market and turmoil in cryptocurrencies, we talked with Changpeng Zhao about the market and value of Bitcoin, Binance’s business transformation and organizational management, his observations on industry regulation, and his own status in a complex environment.

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1 "Bitcoin is a new technology platform rather than an asset"

"Later": Since mid-April, Bitcoin has fallen from a high of nearly $65,000 to as low as $30,000 at one point. What do you think of this huge volatility?

Changpeng Zhao:It is normal for the market to have a big rise and then a big fall. Neither I nor the people around me particularly cared.

"Later": After the price of Bitcoin broke through $50,000 in February this year, you once said on Twitter: "Bitcoin's $50,000 is the new $10,000. If you don't buy it now, you will regret it." Why are you so bullish? Bitcoin?

Changpeng Zhao:I have never predicted the price of Bitcoin on Twitter. But now this industry is still very early, and only about 1% to 2% of the world's people have digital currency. From this perspective, there should be 50 to 100 times more room for development.

"Later": A common view is that the oversupply of the U.S. dollar is an important impetus for this round of bull market that started in the second half of last year. Bitcoin's rise is not because of how good it is, but because the outside world is too bad. What do you think of the reasons for this bull market?

Changpeng Zhao:U.S. money printing does contribute a lot to cryptocurrencies. 42% of the U.S. dollars were printed last year. Holding U.S. dollars is greatly depreciated, so many institutions in the United States have begun to buy Bitcoin.

There are also some factors within the industry. Last year's DeFi (decentralized finance) and this year's NFT (non-homogeneous token) [3] are relatively popular, and there are many innovations. In addition, Bitcoin mining was halved last year[4], and the speed at which new Bitcoins came out was much slower. No one can tell 100% which one has the greater impact.

Zhao Changpeng

Zhao Changpeng: In the long run, the proportion of Bitcoin will decrease. Bitcoin is the first digital currency, it has a network effect, like a global reserve currency in digital currency. But Bitcoin doesn't innovate as fast as new projects, and sooner or later something else will eat into Bitcoin's share, but we haven't seen what yet.

"Later": Does it include Ethereum and Binance's own BNB (Binance Coin, the name of the token issued by Binance)?

Changpeng Zhao:include them. Ethereum had a chance before, because it can do everything that Bitcoin can do, and there are many innovations, and the community is very active. But Ethereum quickly hit a performance bottleneck. It is very difficult for the current cryptocurrency to surpass Bitcoin in market value. Bitcoin is the most decentralized because its founder is absent.

"Later": The value of Bitcoin depends largely on how people define it. What do you think the essence of Bitcoin is? A currency, an asset, or something else?

Changpeng Zhao:I think Bitcoin is a set of new technologies rather than something. When the Internet first came out, people would think of the Internet as another channel of communication. We had telephones, radios, televisions, and now the Internet. But the Internet is actually a new technology platform, and there will be Internet radio, video and social media on the Internet. Social media is not traditional, but TV and radio are traditional. So the Internet is not parallel to them at the specific application level, the Internet is the underlying architecture.

Blockchain and Bitcoin are also the underlying architecture. In digital currency, there will be digital currency currency, assets, securities, bonds and various other things. This is a new platform rather than a certain asset. Many people don't understand how big this is. After a new platform appears, there will be a new version of everything that is traditional, plus more things that are not traditional.

"Later": But "various" things seem to have not yet appeared, and there is no killer application in the blockchain field. Why?

Changpeng Zhao:One is that the entire digital currency industry is still very small, so there is no popular killer application.

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"Later": How did you cross from the traditional financial industry to cryptocurrency?

Changpeng Zhao:After going there, I found that this group of children was very sincere and worked very hard. At that time, a person transferred some coins to me in order to teach me how to use the wallet. After I learned it, I said I would transfer the coins back to you. He said no, you can keep it. You can use this coin to teach the next person. . I took a look, and it was about three hundred dollars, a few thousand yuan, not a lot, but not a lot. These people are really not out to scam money, they are not the drug bosses mentioned in the newspapers, they are just a bunch of technical kids.

After going there, I found that this group of children was very sincere and worked very hard. At that time, a person transferred some coins to me in order to teach me how to use the wallet. After I learned it, I said I would transfer the coins back to you. He said no, you can keep it. You can use this coin to teach the next person. . I took a look, and it was about three hundred dollars, a few thousand yuan, not a lot, but not a lot. These people are really not out to scam money, they are not the drug bosses mentioned in the newspapers, they are just a bunch of technical kids.

When the meeting was over and I was about to leave at the airport, I said that I would sell my house to buy Bitcoin, and I would resign, and join this industry 100%, no matter what I do, I can write code.

"Later": If you are interested in a new opportunity, do you need to sell the house?

Changpeng Zhao:I only had such a small amount of money back then, so don’t disperse it anymore, young, put it all in one place. I never tell others that you are all in, but I can take the risk myself. The worst case scenario is to do it for two years, Bitcoin will go to zero, and I will just go back to work in the bank.

"Later": Did you hold the bitcoin you bought in 2014? The cryptocurrency entered a bear market shortly thereafter.

Changpeng Zhao:Fortunately, it has been held. I remember that less than a year after I sold the house, the housing price in Shanghai doubled, and Bitcoin fell to one-third of the original value, which is equivalent to a six-fold difference. At that time, I was under pressure. Is everyone wrong, or is it just me? Most likely I am alone wrong. But I can't see how it could be wrong, because I feel like this is the future. Looking back, when the Internet bubble burst in 2001, Amazon, eBay, and Google also fell by 98%. We all go through that stage.

"Later": This idea of ​​comparing the blockchain to the Internet, did you have it at the time or did you sum it up afterwards?

Changpeng Zhao:To be honest, I thought of it later, and people in the authorities can't see clearly. I just thought, how long will this thing last, five years, ten years? But fortunately, it took more than two years.

"Later": How do you allocate your personal assets now? Do you have any fixed assets such as houses to buy again?

Changpeng Zhao:I'm basically 99% cryptocurrency, it should all be on BNB, only a small part is Bitcoin. I don't buy a house now, the liquidity of the house is too poor.

"Later": When you entered the industry in 2014, your attitude was very firm, but between 2015 and 2017 before you founded Binance, you left the cryptocurrency industry and made postcards (stamps, coins, phone cards and other collectibles) ) Bijie Technology, which provides the trading system, why do this halfway?

Changpeng Zhao:Bijie originally wanted to run a digital currency exchange in Japan, but found it difficult to do so only with technical knowledge and no Japanese. Postal currency cards in China are very popular later, and some people come to ask if they can provide them. We say that we will sell them if you are willing to pay. Before May 2017, we never thought about doing an exchange.

Later: What happened in May 2017, and why is it back?

Changpeng Zhao:The most direct thing is that I feel that a wave of market is coming, the industry needs this, and the trading platform is my specialty.

In the longer term, I think that in human history, whenever we can increase the degree of freedom of a thing without reducing its security and ease of use, civilization has made great progress. I think that in the next few decades, the degree of freedom of money will become higher, while the security and ease of use can be maintained or even increased. This is what Binance wants to do. We want to provide some infrastructure services to the industry.

"Later": An important reason why blockchain technology can make money flow more freely and more securely is its decentralization. From entering the industry in 2014 to founding Binance, you have been a centralized company in wallets, exchanges and other industries. Why not directly do decentralized projects based on blockchain networks?

Changpeng Zhao:I think people are looking for a combination of three things, one is what they know, the other is what they like, and the third is whether this thing is of value to others. Not everyone knows chips, knows how to mine, and is familiar with mathematical algorithm blockchains. My experience has always been on the trading system side, and the most reasonable thing for me is to continue to be a trading platform.

"Later": The trading platform can also be made in a decentralized form. You recently said that in the next five to ten years, decentralized exchanges will beat centralized exchanges. Looks like you've changed your mind again?

Changpeng Zhao:Decentralized exchanges are indeed developing rapidly, but until now, their transaction volume and safety factor are still different from those of centralized exchanges, and there are thresholds for most novice users.

Of course, you can feel the direction of the waves while you are in the water. DeFi has indeed put pressure on the Binance main station. I am more bullish on the direction of decentralization than I was earlier, and I think this is the future.

"Later": Many people in the blockchain industry have consistent values ​​and direction choices. For example, some people are obsessed with decentralization, some are obsessed with using Bitcoin for payment, and some value improving efficiency; you seem to be more pragmatic , the choice varies with the situation. This will be regarded as not firm enough by some people. How do you think of this characteristic of yourself?

Changpeng Zhao:secondary title

"Later": Binance has been the world's largest cryptocurrency exchange since its establishment 6 months ago. What do you think is the core competitiveness of Binance?

Changpeng Zhao:Or because we have always insisted on user-centric. This is reflected in some long-term and short-term interest games, such as the choice of currency listing and product function design.

We also put 10% of all transaction fee income into SAFU (Secure Asset Fund for Users, Investor Protection Fund) to protect the interests of users and deal with extreme situations.

"Later": When the market fluctuates violently, exchanges such as Binance, Coinbase, and Huobi will still experience freezes, downtime, and "suspension of withdrawals due to a surge in traffic" and other situations. Some believe that behind the apparent glitch is manipulation by the exchange.

Changpeng Zhao:Judging from the current trading volume of Binance, the fee income is quite a lot, and there is no need to manipulate anything to make short-term money. Smart people protect long-term trust.

"Later": You have no shortage of people and money. Why haven't you solved the problems of downtime and lag?

Changpeng Zhao:It's not that simple. Ordinary retail investors who don't know much about the system often say, won't it be solved if you buy more servers? We have already spent money on problems that can be solved by spending money.

In traditional exchanges, such as the Shanghai Stock Exchange and the New York Stock Exchange, retail investors submit orders to brokers, who then combine the orders to the exchange. The exchange only serves hundreds of brokers. We have millions of users from all over the world directly to the exchange. I think we are the largest financial matching market in human history, and the structural pressure is completely different. This cannot be solved by adding servers in parallel. What we want to achieve is to make the Boeing 838 ten times larger, but it is still a single aircraft that can still fly, which is relatively difficult.

The growth at this stage has completely exceeded our expectations for 2018. We are still doing various optimizations, but we may encounter some bumps and bumps as we continue to grow downward.

"Later": Which specific aspects exceeded expectations?

Changpeng Zhao:Mainly the number of users, which far exceeded expectations. The peak value of Bitcoin in 2017 was 20,000 US dollars. Some time ago, it reached more than 50,000 US dollars, an increase of 2.5 times, but the number of active users has increased by 20 times. At that time, it had been expanded by five times or ten times, but it still couldn't bear it.

"Later": You mentioned that the entry of institutions is a characteristic of this round of bull market. How is the growth of your institutional users? Can the entry of Chinese institutional power be observed?

Changpeng Zhao:The overall institutional data has grown exponentially, especially in the past six months. In the entire market, Chinese institutions account for a small proportion. U.S. institutions account for about 80 to 90 percent of the market, and in China, retail investors account for 80 to 90 percent. People with hundreds of millions of dollars in China operate an account by themselves.

"Later": How do you attract institutional users?

Changpeng Zhao:Institutional trading has completely different requirements for API and transaction speed than retail investors. For example, an organization is operated by a team, with a boss, a team leader, and a small team. Each person has different permissions. We call it the sub-account function. Few exchanges had these features in 2017, and neither did we, and now we do.

"Later": When did you start making these preparations?

Changpeng Zhao:The sub-account was around the end of 2018, when it was a bear market. In fact, we were mainly practicing internal skills at that time. Our core matching was relatively fast at that time, but the peripheral systems were not enough. In 2017, we grew too fast to keep up. At that time, I was worried that if there was a very bull market in 2018, Binance would be stuck, and we might lose our leading position.

So in 2018, all my internal communication was to improve performance and expand the system. The bull market will come, so don’t worry. I personally experienced a bear market before, and my psychological quality was very good at that time.

"Later": So the bear market that started in early 2018 is actually a favorable external environment for Binance?

Changpeng Zhao:Yes, if it continues to rise at that time, we will not be able to bear it anymore, and there may not be today's Binance.

"Later": What is your forecast for future growth? What preparations will be made in advance?

Changpeng Zhao:We can't predict the future at all. But we judge that there is a high probability that the number of users will increase. We must at least prepare for scalability first. If it doesn't happen, then we will waste some money, which is not a big problem; but if it happens, we can't waste the opportunity.

"Later": Now many new users are pouring into the cryptocurrency market. Their risk awareness and trading skills may not be good, but exchanges such as Binance and Huobi can easily increase leverage, and leverage is easy to lose money. How do you deal with this problem?

Changpeng Zhao:Binance should be the only one among all digital currency exchanges that has a "responsible trading program". We call it a responsible trading program. First, if a retail investor comes to play our futures or options, we will ask him two questions: First, how likely do you think he will lose money? If he writes less than 50%, we will not let him play, and your mentality is wrong; second, if he loses money, who does he think is responsible? If he thinks that it is someone else's responsibility, it is the responsibility of Binance, then you don't play, you play spot.

Second, if a new retail investor loses money to a certain extent, our system will tell him not to trade any more and prevent him from trading for 48 hours. I believe we are the only exchange that prevents users from trading.

"Later": How many people have you stopped in total? What is the price of blocking?

Changpeng Zhao:I don't have the data, there should be quite a few people, but it won't cause much loss to our income. Because of this kind of user, he will only hurt himself and will not help us in particular. After the injury, he will still stop, but he will stop sooner and later. We let him stop one day earlier, so he loses less money, and it doesn’t matter if we earn dozens of dollars less in handling fees, we retain long-term users. He learned how to make money, and our income will be more.

Zhao Changpeng

Zhao Changpeng: Binance is now completely using the multi-signature mechanism, and it has not relied on a single person for a long time. Our largest wallet requires 7 out of 15 signatures. Who these people are, they don't know each other, and only a few people know who they are all. And I am not on the signature list with anyone from Binance that is open to the public. Withdrawing coins from Binance has nothing to do with me. I can’t steal coins even if I want to.

"Later": But this mechanism still needs someone to coordinate in the middle, right? Does this pose some risk?

Changpeng Zhao:All with tools. Tasks that need to be processed will pop up in the software of the person who manages the wallet. People who do operations management don't know who is in charge of the wallet.

"Later": How to ensure that the people in the multi-signature list are not in series with each other?

Changpeng Zhao:The treatment they get from Binance is relatively high, so we first remove his willingness to steal. And it’s not enough for just one person to steal, he has to collude with about 8 or 9 people. It was very easy for him to give away when he went to find out who the others were. It doesn't matter if someone has an accident. Software can remove people and add new ones.

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Zhao Changpeng

Zhao Changpeng: The daily transaction volume of BSC is now about four or five times higher than that of Ethereum. There are hundreds of ecological projects, but BSC has only been launched for more than 9 months, and it has risen faster than we thought. In addition to BSC, we are still working on DEX (Decentralized Exchange, decentralized exchange), and we have also invested in many Ethereum and Polkadot ecological projects.

"Later": In fact, decentralized finance can also be done on Ethereum. For example, Uniswap, the decentralized exchange with the largest trading volume, is an Ethereum ecological project. Why don't you use ready-made things, but launched BSC in September last year? ?

Changpeng Zhao:Let me explain, BSC is not made by us. When we were doing BNB by ourselves, we gradually had a lot of cooperation with the community. So when I came to BSC, a group of people in the community came and said that they were going to build a smart contract chain, which was close to Ethereum, and hoped that we would give a sum of money. They are willing to use BNB as the main currency of this chain, and any transactions on this chain will use BNB in ​​the future, which is a good thing for Binance, because we are the largest holder of BNB.

Therefore, my participation in BSC is very low. This is a community project, but the developers are not willing to show up. In fact, I have done nothing and have no ability.

"Later": Is there no conflict between Binance's centralized holding of BNB and the direction of the decentralized community announced by BSC?

Changpeng Zhao:There are two parts to this. Is BNB very centralized? Yes. But it's a fee we earn through the service. When we first issued BNB, we reserved 40% for the team, but because Binance quickly reached the profit point, we never spent or sold this part of the currency, and promised to destroy all of this part later. This is different from other coin issuance mechanisms. You can consider whether we are too centralized.

Second, after BSC is completely decentralized, the value will be greater, the market value of the entire BNB will be higher, and the network effect of attracting users will be greater. So from a profit-driven point of view, we want to decentralize, and we are doing the same.

In addition, if there is a centralized organization holding a lot of coins, this is not a bad thing, we will not hurt the community and smash the market, which will require huge costs and will not do us any good.

"Later": Some people think that Ethereum is a more ideal state of blockchain projects. It is relatively decentralized, and its founder Vitalik does not hold too much Ethereum. Is this the direction BSC wants to develop?

Changpeng Zhao:Our understanding is not the case. Many people may think that in this currency, everyone has a little bit of fairness. But if only small fish come in and no whales come in, there may be only one reason, big institutions are not optimistic.

Around 2017, Vitalik sold a part of Ethereum for 30 million US dollars, which may mean that he was particularly fair, or that he valued the US dollar more at that time.

Why are we unwilling to take USD and willing to take BNB? This means we have confidence.

"Later": The outside world thinks that BSC is a benchmark against Ethereum. What do you think of the competition between the two?

Changpeng Zhao:I don't think BSC competes with Ethereum. Now the people who use Ethereum are not the same as those who use BSC.

Some people prefer Ethereum because Vitalik takes less coins, is more decentralized, etc. But their handling fees are more expensive, and to be honest they are very expensive. It costs $10 to transfer an account, and hundreds of dollars to use a more complicated contract. Unless you do millions of transactions at a time, you can't pay the handling fee.

In Southeast Asia, India, and Africa, there are still many bottom-of-the-pyramid users, and they have a large number. We provide them with a cheaper network that enables more people to use and enter the blockchain.

After the rise of BSC, the transaction volume of Ethereum has not decreased, but it has not increased any more. This is because it has encountered a technical bottleneck, and the maximum carrying capacity of the network is 15 to 20 transactions per second. We're slowly getting more because we haven't hit the ceiling yet. So there's no competition, it's just that we can serve users they couldn't serve.

"Later": Can't the Ethereum community let the technology evolve?

Changpeng Zhao:Sure it can, but it will take time. Their positioning is different from that of BSC. It needs to be able to fully synchronize on millions of ledgers and process millions of orders per second at the same time. This technical threshold is quite high and it will be difficult to solve within a few years.

Recently I see that Vitalik tweets less, he should be in retreat. I really hope he can solve this problem so that the whole industry will become bigger again.

"Later": BSC is faster and cheaper than Ethereum, because there are many fewer nodes that need to synchronize the ledger, right?

Changpeng Zhao:That's one thing, we have 21 nodes. In addition, our nodes are relatively large, the machine performance is relatively high, and some changes have been made in the architecture.

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"Later": Recently, governments of various countries have expressed different stances on cryptocurrencies - some governments are very open to cryptocurrencies; The Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC), the Federal Reserve and the FDIC are considering forming an "interagency group" on cryptocurrency regulation. How do you think the attitudes of various countries will affect the global blockchain industry structure?

Changpeng Zhao:Sorry, I will not comment publicly on specific regulators and their policies, but Binance is definitely actively communicating with global regulators. At present, the terms and conditions of each country are different, which is a good thing. You can see which terms are more conducive to development, and you can have multiple references.

"Later": Judging from your contacts, what are the common concerns of all countries? What common ideas and cognitions do governments have?

Changpeng Zhao:When we communicated two or three years ago, everyone asked whether this thing was used by terrorists. It would be embarrassing to say that now, as if there was no common sense. Now they are more concerned about how to prevent money laundering and crime. In fact, the data on the blockchain is transparent, which makes it easier to analyze and track. The regulation in some places is pushing this thing instead. They suddenly understand that blockchain and cryptocurrency do not make you more out of control, but let you control it more finely.

Zhao Changpeng

Zhao Changpeng: Degree of freedom and compliance have a certain relationship, but they do not conflict.

I think compliance is still very important. There are a group of people in the blockchain and digital currency industries who are extremely liberal. They hope that they will live by themselves without the government or the police. I don't think human beings can be civilized to that level. In a society without government and police, how can everyone protect themselves and hire private security guards?

We still need some rules, to put it bluntly, we still need some supervision.

However, it may not be right to wait for someone to set all the rules before starting this industry, because the rules are all worked out for a period of time before they are figured out. Supervision needs cases. It is impossible to tell you that you can do this and not do this in an industry that has not yet been developed, and let this industry develop.

"Later": What type of government is more active in cryptocurrency, is it related to the size of the country or the type of economy?

Changpeng Zhao:I personally feel that a few years ago it was a small country, because a big country is more complicated. In a big country like China and the United States, if the rules are not detailed enough, many people will take advantage of loopholes. But in the early days of the industry, it is very difficult for you to set the specific details. But for example, Bermuda has 70,000 people in the whole country, which is about the same as a community in Shanghai. He doesn't need regulations, and he can see it from case to case. Moreover, small countries don’t need to protect their own currency. They don’t care much about the impact. Instead, they think this thing can help them lead in new fields, such as financial technology.

Now it is a bit reversed, and several big countries are competing. If China wants the renminbi to become a global base currency, it may be very helpful for you to issue a central bank digital currency and it will be accepted.

"Later": Do you think the digital currencies issued by central banks of various countries are real blockchain applications?

Changpeng Zhao:It's very subtle here. At present, the first version of digital currency issued by most central banks is still relatively centralized. It has an issuer who can issue additional coins, control the entire network, and reject some transactions. It does use blockchain technology, but most of its nodes are not public. You say it's a blockchain, and yes, you say it's not, and it's not. But I don't think it's necessary to be so entangled in the definition. Decentralization itself is grayscale, not black and white. For example, if you are particularly decentralized, but the handling fee is very expensive, it is not so easy to use, and there are very fine trade-offs in it.

In the end, it depends on whether it is safe, easy to use and free enough. If these numbers are high, it will be used by many people; if it is low, unless you force people to use it, but it is too difficult to force people.

"Later": What impact will the central bank's digital currency have on Bitcoin and other digital currencies without government endorsement?

Changpeng Zhao:secondary title

6 "I'm not the one to smash the ball"

"Later": Binance does not have a headquarters, and all employees work from home. How do you ensure the operation?

Changpeng Zhao:We now have less than 3,000 people, distributed in more than 60 countries and regions around the world. Daily collaboration with various office software, such as Google Docs, Google Meet, etc.

"Later": Will someone ask to use digital currency to pay wages?

Changpeng Zhao:More recently. Because BNB has risen relatively high this year.

"Later": How do you pay taxes?

Changpeng Zhao:Everyone pays their own personal income tax, and all companies (Binance has different registered entities in many countries) need to pay the tax of the place where the company is registered. If you are a community, you don't have to pay taxes. The Ethereum community doesn't have the concept of paying taxes, but companies do.

"Later": When describing Binance, you used the word "company", so you are still a company?

Changpeng Zhao:We basically never use the word company internally, but I use this word when talking with you, because it is easier to understand. We use "organization" internally. We generally don't use the word employee very much, we call it a team member.

A lot of the company’s traditional Binance doesn’t have it. We don't need headquarters and offices, and we don't need to be registered in a certain place. But we can get a group of people to do things together. We have trust and reward mechanisms between us.

"Later": As far as we know, Binance uses OKR and KPI at the same time, which is the most commonly used management method for centralized companies.

Changpeng Zhao:Having a goal does not mean centralization.

"Later": How has your role changed since the development of Binance?

Changpeng Zhao:Now I can't do many things by myself, and the efficiency of doing it by myself is very low. For example, in the past, marketing activities sometimes asked me for approval, but now I basically don't need to get involved in marketing costs below 3 million US dollars.

Now my greatest value in Binance is to unite the team, attract strong people, and bring in external elites. So I've been on the phone all day lately, spending a lot of time chatting.

"Later": You also spend a lot of time on social media, you tweet quite frequently.

Changpeng Zhao:Twitter is a tool for me to interact with the community. I speak on twitter to help us do some promotion, and it also helps me understand complaints or sentiments in the community. In fact, I don't like to show my face very much, but in order to promote BNB and BSC, I sometimes hate people in Ethereum and deliberately mix it up. This kind of trick is also used. It’s not necessarily a bad thing for them to scold back. It’s good for us when BSC is smaller than Ethereum.

"Later": Your judgment on what to do and how to do it seems to be based on rationality and interests, and you will do it if you think it is beneficial.

Changpeng Zhao:I have several responsibilities: I lead a team to get the job done and make the whole thing bigger. It's not necessarily a responsibility, it's my mission, and I'm living to do things.

Although I don't like every job subdivided, I especially like the overall sense of mission of this matter. Based on this consideration, I can abstract myself to a certain extent, I do what I have to do, my mood is very calm, there is no particularly excited or sad time.

"Later": How did this peaceful state come about?

Changpeng Zhao:It has been like this since I was a child. My personality has always been very stable, and I don't know how it was formed. I have never yelled at anyone, including when Binance was stolen and lost.

"Later": Before founding Binance, you have changed many places. You stayed in Jiangsu until you were 12 years old, and then went to Vancouver with your family, worked in Tokyo and New York, and started a business in Shanghai. This long-term migration life is beneficial to you. What effect?

Changpeng Zhao:I really like the mixing of many different cultures, which is very helpful for Binance to be more global.

My initial attraction to Bitcoin is also related to this. When I went to New York after work in Tokyo, I found it very troublesome and expensive to transfer money. Bitcoin does not have this problem. I can easily understand that the degree of freedom is higher and the cost is lower.

"Later": Among the places you have stayed, which one has the greatest influence on your personality and thinking?

Changpeng Zhao:My most important adolescence was in Canada. Canada is a country of immigrants, with people of various nationalities and nationalities. In fact, the kids from the mainland usually play with the kids from the mainland. I was an exception. I was playing volleyball all the time. I was in middle school for 5 years, and I was the captain of the school team for 4 years. There are all kinds of people on the varsity team, I have great white friends, Korean friends, Indian friends and black friends. Some of my Chinese friends complain about racism, but I never feel it.

"Later": What was your style on the court before? Competitive, sharp, or take everyone to fight together?

Changpeng Zhao:In fact, the volleyball captain is a concept of glue. He is generally a setter, responsible for organizing and coordinating the entire field, not necessarily the person with the strongest attack power. Several people in our team are taller, stronger than me, jump higher than me, and smash the ball more ruthlessly. I'm not the one who kills the ball.